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What to do on the final weekend before the descent
Submitted by rafraf on Tue, 07/27/2010 - 20:45
Hello all,
Doing our first Avon Descent this year (515) and would really like people's opinions on what are the best things to do on this the final weekend (given the water levels that is).
We have done Northam to Toodyay; and a couple of runs from Walyunga to Bells and a little beyond. Otherwise, we are both unfamiliar with the rest of the course.
What other sections (if any) are doable and worth doing this weekend?
If none, where would you be going instead?
P.S.
To preempt - yes - we have already started practicing running with our bath tub, I mean kayak.
Cut off time question
When calculating cut off times, does anyone know whether the 'start' time from which the cut offs are calculated is the start time of the first paddler or the start time of the event (i.e. the time the first power boat starts). The half hour difference could be mighty important this year!
Cut Off time
I think for paddlers it is the start time of the first paddler - see the AD website
SP
Had a look at the website and
Had a look at the website and it isn't specific. Just states 'start + xxxx'. I suspect that the start is the race start (i.e. 8am, assuming no fog delays).
Cut off
but it says for paddle craft so it appears to me to be from the start of the paddle craft.
if you look at the day 2 cut off - for power craft it is start + 1hr 45 so power craft are cut off 1hr 45 after the paddle craft start ??
My logic - but I may be wrong??
SP
Right for a change
Yep I rang and asked about what time the cut-offs are relative to, and it's to the paddling start time. But see my article on cut-offs. Don't get caught by the fact that the 'hardest' cut-off to meet is the last one in the Ti-Tree, which is fixed at 1600 no matter what time you start.
On Power vs Paddle, I also mentioned to organisers that in 2002 I overtook a good portion of the Power Boats (didn't race 2006). I was told that the rule is that Power Boats that are overtaken by paddle have to pull out. But also that there is some discretion for the race director regarding this issue. Personally overtaking power craft was the highlight of my day, but that rule makes good sense.
Start of each class
The cutoffs are relative to the first starter in each type of craft - power or paddle.
If the powerboat cutoff on day 2 was 1:45 after the first paddler, they'd be disqualified as soon as they started since they start 5:00 behind. While this WOULD be hilarious...
"GO!" *black flag* :D
The reason they don't specify exact times for most checkpoints is in case they have to delay the start significantly - the paddle start on Day 1 is listed as "30 minutes after the last power boat unless we have a whoopsie." On day 2 the cutoffs are all about keeping paddlers away from the powerboats in the rapids.
Paddling a 515
We have also entered (again) this year in a 515.
We have done some calculations on our 2006 times (in single short plastic 445's), compared to our speed in the 515, to the river level etc etc.
A few assumptions have been made, but this is how we see it.
To reach the Ti Trees cutoff by 4:00pm, we need to be in a start grid starting around 8:45am and we will need to push (or should that be pull) the 515 hard to make it by 4:00pm.
Last year, our 515 start grid was 9:30am (double plastics are (or at least last year were) pretty well the last paddle craft to set off). So that tells us, before we even start, on the river we will need to make up 45 minutes against our 'usual' race pace (a reasonable ask!).
Added to that, we were told on Sunday there are a record number of entries, so we are expecting to start even later than 9:30am.
The fun part, we don't know our start grids till we register on Friday.
Bottom line, we don't know if we will bother competing till we attend registration - in the mean time (he says trying to keep positive) we are off to do the Ti Trees this weekend just so we have an idea of what we will be facing next Saturday.
A couple of tips -
1) make sure you have a 'tow rope' to drag your boat through the shallow sections and
2) don't bother putting your spray deck on and off when you get in and out of the boat in these shallow bits (I did in 2006 - probably out of habit and in hindsight it makes no sense and it lost me many, many minutes - I was around abouts the third boat to get pulled at Ti Trees in 2006 at approx 4:02pm and if i hadn't phaffed about with my spray deck all those times, who knows ...)
Stay positive,
Derek.
Training weekend
Well, we ended up paddling the 515 from West Toodyay to Bells. It took us 1.5 days and a fair bit of walking (in wet gear in the middle of the night, long story) but wes and I feel like we have done our descent or what could very well be the closest thing to one we'll get this year :)
Tea Trees were not too bad (with no other paddlers and only a few kms behind us that is). But the course took its toll on our boat. I don't think our poor 515 has more than another valley run left in her.
I really hope they put the plastic doubles in an earlier grid as I doubt we have any chance at all if starting from the back. I am happy to accept what nature has given and do my best, but I would at least like the organizers to give us a fighting chance.
Scoop front page story
C'mon rafraf, we don't know who you are, so cut lose and tell us what happened on the weekend! Did you pull an all nighter down the Avon Valley, 'cos if so we'd love to read about it. Not to laugh at your expense, you understand, but to stand alongside you in solidarity and to marvel at your endurance.
Middle of the night!!
come on, you mentioned it, now you gotta tell us
Middle of the night
Go back.....What do you mean middle of the night?
Middle of the night
Before I disappoint - middle of the night is an overstatement (by an hour). Also, this story does not exactly showcase intelligence - and kids, don't try this at home.
But here goes. We decided that since there is a good chance we won't make it to day 2 of the race we might as well have fun. We dropped one car off at Posselts Ford, and drove to W. Toodyay bridge. Our support crew then moved W. Toodyay car to Bells. The idea was to do the tea trees and then see if we have enough time to make it to Bells. Our own mini-descent.
We have never done any of the sections from Toodyay to Walyunga I should say.
We took our time through the tea-trees. Trying alternate roots (pun intended), stopping for food, even posing for a photo (another long story).
It was 2pm when we got to Posselts Ford. Obviously not enough time to make it to Bells. We put the kayak on the roof and were about to head home after an unsatisfactory day (wes was unhappy with the effort) when I realized I forgot my car keys, in the other car, which was now at Bells.
So we looked at each other and thought - yeah if it is a race for survival maybe we can push it. And off we went. At around 3pm we ran out of drinking water and food. At 17:30pm after a lot of portaging, the sun was setting and we were nowhere near any familiar landmarks. I had a GPS on my nokia phone and it helpfully told us we were not on a road. Hoping for the moon to rise we kept going. By around 7pm, with no moon and only star light to guide us, it was getting ridiculous.
We could see nothing but the foam on the coming rapids. When a train went past we decided, cold and sick of pushing our beached whale off yet another invisible rock, or getting slapped in the face by yet another phantom tea tree, that it was time to abandon ship and head for the railway line.
I recorded our coordinates (though we still had no clue where we were relative to anything else) and in our wet gear and booties we headed bush. We kept everything on including helmets, pfds, and skirts to help keep warm (and to give the roos something to laugh at) and began walking along the railroad tracks (we had no idea there was a comfy road right next to the tracks).
I tell you - the walk from Northam to Toodyay seems like heaven when compared to walking on the sharp gravel of the railway line, for what turned out to be about 20km. (we were still so optimistic about our paddling pace that when we heard the flow of what in retrospect was most likely Syds we went back down to the river thinking it was Bells.) Whenever we tried to stop to figure out where we were, we got so cold that we realized we had to keep moving.
It was 11pm, 13hrs after we started, before we reached the car. But with 50km of 'paddling' and 20km of walking we were proud of the effort if not our brain power.
Btw, the only reason we were not on the news as "missing morons found safe but bruised on railroad tracks" is because we managed to send out a "we are ok" sms when we got a slither of reception about half way to bells.
The next day we picked up my car and went to retrieve the kayak. We were just outside of the avon national park, and had to walk about 3km walk from the nearest road to find it again. It was then just a brisk 3hr of paddling down to Bells and the odyssey was over.
I am not sure we will recover in time for the descent. But we got some good stories out of it. And learned some important lessons about the paddalability of the avon at night, again in case anyone was wondering.
Nocturnal 515
Is it a red one by any chance?
515
maybe red, its hard to see the colour at night
Honesty
Now that's a tale. Thanks for the honest recounting. I'd love to say I've never done something similarly embarassing, but I have.
Some good risk management lessons - you had some good plans to prevent problems, made some mistakes and then kept yourselves safe and free from being front page of the West Australian during your late night ramble. More power to you.
Midnight Express
Wow.. Im so glad you made it back safely. Thanks for sharing your experience for people to read so they also will be aware of such problems. Are two heads better than 1?
I hope the photos came out well!!
To Clarify
I think it was careful balance of walking and paddling that was all planned and nothing out of the ordinary happened :)
In all seriousness, it was a pretty amazing time both days, learnt the Avon, pushed ourselves and came out on top. Was allot of fun and taxing, we ran some great lines on some pretty challenging rapids........ and jeez it felt like we had the river to ourselves.
Thanks again Juffy for the lend of the nosecone, felt a bit less exposed with the lack of water and the masses of exposed rocks.
Am all ready for Saturday despite the gloomy outlook, just going to have as much fun as possible...... not read to much into it.
Broadened horizons
That's more excitement than that nose cone ever got up to leading me down the valley. Glad you're putting it to good use. :)
good effort!
Wow guys that's some story. I love how there was a really good contingency plan to have a car at both possible stopping locations, very smart. I can only imagine the horror of realising that you didn't have the keys to that car . . .
Glad to hear it was a good outcome for the two of you and I bet you'll never forget car keys again!! Good luck for the Descent, please tell us your boat number so that those of us spectating can give you an extra loud cheer as you go past!!
420
Red 515 number 420. Thanks all for the understanding. We can use all the cheering we can get :)
Raf.
(P.S. that was wesley's positive spin on it - last time I will forget the car keys. Too true. On day 2, I forgot the phone ;)
Lift
If you'd put your hand up at Stronghills you could have got a lift down to Bells but I guess you were probably determined to finish by then.
PS. Did you walk across the concrete railway bridge not too far before Bells???
super effort
Totally mad, though.
Well done, a classic story for the books and a classic life experience. Possibly better it was low water, so the risk of drowning in the dark was less.
I'm impressed.
Send your postals to fiasco at iinet dot net dot au and some RPB stickers will be yours.
Grids
... will be published earlier than Friday, I'm told. Possibly as early as Tuesday next week. Start order is a big issue for 2 reasons:
(a) Reduction in the available time to make the final cut-off in the Ti Trees.
(b) Congestion in front of you if you're starting further back, compounding the problem.
Grids
last year the grids were on the website early in the week before the race
SP(now paddling DR)
photos of sadly, a low river
If anyone is going for a wade through the t-trees or a drive to check out what the river looks like in Toodyay and Northam on the weekend or early next week, could they upload some pictures to help country paddlers with their decision about whether to take part in the race. Thanks
Low water photos
I had the afternoon off and guess what? I took photos! Still trying to shake off the flew bug at the moment.
There is water flowing, but it will be interesting to see all the competitors compete for the same one and only channel. The Northam chute is going to be a mess as the channels below are only ankle deep.
http://picasaweb.google.com/johnkayak/2010NorthamToToodyayLowWaterToodya...
Also had a look at Postles. Very rocky but still possible. Super chute will need to be handled differently_avoid going too wide and stay close to the corner on your right as you go through
http://picasaweb.google.com/johnkayak/2010PostlesSuperChuteToodyayGaugeL...
Ohhhh dear even
Thanks a lot for the photos moocow.
What a sad sight to see, in fact, I have not seen those sections like that at all (but only a kinda-Rookie).
I had previously decided not to race this year which was a very hard decision at the time, I guess I might have got lucky.
Wishing any of you crazy adventure racing types the best of luck, and the paddlers ... well all the strength they will need.
I'll keep wishing for some kind of miracle for you all.
ohhhh
It's real low.
Cheers for posting photos.
I'm happy I forked out extra for the PRS nose cone.
If the race goes head, I am starting. I would hate it if some people finished and I didn't even start it.
low water insperation
Good for you Ponson.
As short plastic paddler, I'll weigh up how my progress is when I reach my support crew at Toodyay. Hopefully I can calculate if I will make the cut off. If not, i'll pull out early and save myself/ and my crew further pain. But at least I can say I gave it a go. It is an endurance race after all.
Email
I emailed the race organisers in relation to the low water levels and posed the question what is going to happen if there is insufficient water to race? They basically told me that they will run the event as per normal at .3 and that they expect the river to be at .3 or at best .4 So my advice is that if you are a solo paddler and have not trained hard for this event you should re consider your participation. 06 was a true endurance race. Its not like paddling a deep flat water race, you'll be scraping you paddle on the bottom of the river for the first 30kms, your be on and off your boat 30 + times, wading in water, chaffing and cramp, it will be extremely hard. If you are not fit don't kid yourself. Sorry to be all doom and gloom but the race organisers won't tell you this.
The organisers are so cute
They really do have no idea. 0.4? My mum could tell you it's not going to be that high.
shallow water
Practice some more shallow water paddling, being good at picking the channels is important. I would probably want to get a look at the Trees. Others would say that you cannot paddle the trees at this level, but you can get through.
It's a good way to explore them, but it's pretty slow going. It's good fun, and a safe introduction to this section that can be daunting as a novice.
I would go up and paddle West Toodyay bridge to Posselts (or you could start in Toodyay, but it's just more of the same). This will give you plenty of shallow water paddling. Usually people do multiple runs in the trees - but not at this level.
There's beach sections in here, so you can work out how best to drag the boat (take what you plan to use in the race). Logs to cross at this level, and a good fun day out if you're patient enough.
Also make sure all your gear is in check, tour your support crew and make sure everything is organised.
Look at the times for double plastics on the 2006 results, although it is likely to be slower. Figure out elapsed times so you can track your progress and to help your support crew.
I've done all that - and will be out getting some fitness - maybe paddling along the banks of the swan to simulate the shallow water.
Good luck
Gees I feel like a miserable bastard
Don't shoot the messenger, but I can't see a lot of point in driving out to Toodyay this weekend. The web estimated gauge height in the Ti Trees is 0.1m. That's a 10cm deep flow of water going past the measuring stick, down from 20cm five days ago. In many places the water course spreads much wider and will be just a trickle.
Yes you'll get a feel for doing the trees in low water, and yes you'll get an idea of your race pace, strategy and how things will be for you on race day.
To simulate the experience, find any section of river with a shallow sloping sandy edge and a few trees along the bank. Paddle along in about 10cm of water, running aground regularly. Paddle into the bank and drag your boat 50m. Get in and paddle 20m before having to portage again. Drag the boat through the branches a couple of times. Repeat this until your GPS says you have covered around 15km.
To more accurately represent race day, you'll need around 50-100 other paddlers trying to do the same thing at the same time along the same section, and you'll need to have paddled/dragged your boat 40km immediately beforehand. And if you take too much time, you'll need someone to turn up and tell you that you've been cut-off now and can stop.
I'm going to do a long flat water paddle, wait to see what race organisers do, and remain very thankful I'm in a team and won't kill myself trying to complete this thing!
fair enough
I'm not surprised with the response - not sure if the word "fun" should have been used.
When I first learnt the trees before the 2006 race, it was a while before - at a level where the valley was completely unpaddleable (we were excited when it shot up over 0.4 (at walyunga) so we could actually do a valley run). It was about 0.1 on the tt guauge - most club paddlers just laughed, but it really helped when it came to the race day.
Agree you will spend a lot of time out of the boat. But if you're planning on getting through in the race then this would give you a better chance. When it's ultra low the best routes are often different, and knowing what's coming can make all the difference.
This is where I got proficient at jumping straight off a 3 foot high log into the cockpit of my kayak. Skis have a key benefit in low water. Unless you have a tight cockpit you need to treat your kayak like a ski and be quick at getting in and out.
Knowing the trees at 10cm is even more important because of the queues of people everywhere. With experience at the low level you can identify where the queue is in the wrong place - or how you can make the right choice quickly. A few minutes here and there really add up.
You'll say "Hey last weekend we discovered this was a dead end - let's get out and jump over to that channel immediately rather than joining the queue"
Definitely know the cuttoffs, but more importantly you need to set your own targets in order to meet the important cuttoff times. The critical path has nothing to do with the earlier cuttoffs (eg if you only make Emus just before 11am you may as well pull out anyway). Work backwards to know what time you need to be at the major milestones - and push hard to keep in touch with this throughout the day.
You should have you target times written on the river guide sticker in a handy place.
low
certainly good comments.
Like a supermodel who won't get out of bed for less than a million, I've never considered doing ti-trees when it is virtually unpaddlable but looking at nearmap, maybe a walk through the trees is in order.
ps- There were a few regulars that I didn't get to on scrutineering. If anyone sends me a postal addr by private email ( fiasco at iinet dot net dot au ) I will send some stickers out. Phantom's stickers were pretty good too but I had MORE stickers made.
thanks
Thanks jayp - great advice. We'll definitely do that section.
Regarding times for the double plastic - 17.5h - the winners would have been pushing the cut-off times wouldn't they have been? :)
double plastic cut offs
From memory Juffy and Rookie (sorry, Was Rookie) wash rode the winning 515 for some distance in 2008.
I didn't paddle in 2006 but I'd say that may give you an idea that the double plastic in 06 just scraped through and Juffy just missed out.
It has been already mentioned how difficult it is to get in and out of a kayak.
I'd love to see you have a crack but I'd hate for any one to give the sport away due to one dry year.
Maybe ask Princess what she thought of dragging my bum down a dry Northam - Toodyay race. (I couldn't get in and out of the oat efficiently!)
As for me I'm undecided but I think I'll go on the T-Tree guage. If it is less than 0.4 I'll give it a skip.
(I've looked at adventure racing runners and I don't think two of them will fit in the PRS!)
Dry Runs in a 515
One thing I learned from the low level paddle in the 515 was that it is a good idea to have your tow rope to the front of the boat already set up with a rope long enough so that you can leave it on in the boat and fixed to a shoulder or waist strap so you can just get in and out. Practice so that you can get in and out without getting wrapped up in the rope. As someone else said, don't bother putting your deck back on at any time. Decide whether both of you need to get out, as the back person can often stay in the boat and keep paddling, and it halves the amount of time it takes to get back in, and they can get keep the boat moving while the front paddler gets back in.
Good luck to all those people who are going to drag their way down the course next weekend. I hope you all make it down!
Using Tow Ropes
Please be VERY careful about affixing a tow rope to your personage - can I suggest that you only leave it tied to yourself during the first part of day 1 - it could be quite dangerous in the ti-trees.
Sorry to put a dampener on ideas that can make things easier - SAFETY FIRST - there is still enough moving water to make a boat full of water a very dangerous anchor.
sunday ti-trees
0.2 gague
the trees are surprisingly doable. got out 3 or 4 times. The worst is the start of day 2, where one section needed getting out 3 times in about 20 m.
Otoh, looking at northam weir and places downstream, pretty bad.
Emu is unpaddlable. Would not waste my time and hboat damage at either the shredder or the washing machine.
Sunday Ti trees
Had a great day paddling with a fun group today through the Upper Ti Trees. Found some sneeky escape routes and didnt need to portage. I have new found enthusiasm about the race.
Day 2 Ti Trees was extremely tight but we managed to get through. It will be a nightmare on race day in the congestion. Postles was rocky but not a drama and super chute requiring a fancy steering stroke to avoid that last rock. awsome fun
Wave Hoppers rule in Ti Trees
Cut-offs
A lot of paddlers (myself included) fell foul of the cut-off times in '06, from memory they pulled 100+ boats out at the ti tree checkpoint. Lots more were yanked at Syd's, Walyunga, Bells and Middle Swan on Day 2.
You've got ~7 hours to hit the ti tree checkpoint (note that this point is halfway through the trees, NOT the Wetherall Reserve timing gate), then your only real cutoff is darkness. So figure 9:20 - 5:30 on day 1, then 8:00 to 4:00 at Middle Swan puts you at 16 hours with 15k to paddle.
It's worth having the cutoff times written on your race map - there was a lot of confusion at the back of the pack in '06 because none of us knew what was going on. I'd also recommend having a mobile with you to contact your support crew in case you do get yanked, it'll save you and them a lot of drama.
Cut -offs
If I recall correctly in 2006 paddlers that didnt make the day 1 cut off time were allowed to start day 2, a gesture of good will on NADA's part.
Unfortunatey it wasnt communicated too well and not too many came back, they probably had enough of it!
SP
Day 2
Yeah, and if you finished you still got a medal. :p
I knew about the offer, but I had no real inclination to haul my boat down the valley for a technical DNF. 0.3 is not a paddleable valley, it's masochism.
4 - Masochist
one who enjoys what appears to be painful or tiresome
That's why we do the descent!!!