Thanks Terry. I'll go and see them this weekend as at the moment I just about have to eat my dinner off the bow as it protrudes into my dining room from the lockup sunroom!

Cheers again

Hey Newbie, you can get a locking ring from Canoeing Downunder (Really awesome shop and people!) when you get your racks! they cost about 20 bucks and bolt to your boat. You can put a bike lock or the like through it.

Thanks Fiasco however I need to secure the ski also as it will be outside and may get knicked. Linc, I think, had an "eyebolt" attached to his craft and then used a chain or wire rope through the bolt to attach to another bolt in the wall. I think ! Need his photos to see how it was done.

Thanks again

http://www.canoeingdownunder.com.au/items.php?CatID=2&SubCat1=Boat%20Racks

Hey Linc,

Would you mind taking a photo of the setup you have to secure your skis and posting it here. One of the actual attachment to the ski would be great. I am the Newbie so I need all the info I can get before I start babbling to anyone in a marine shop or even Canoeing Down Under ! I know they would be very patient with me but every bit of info helps.

Thanks

In time SG.... in time!

I'm in retail and understand the angle Ski Girl and Rookie have taken.

However gear manufacturers are in the business of selling. If I buy a secondhand ski, the chances are I will be buying from someone who, further up the chain, will buy a new ski.

The manufacturers don't ask if you will be buying secondhand. They are only too pleased to loan you a ski. The skis are usually pretty worn after being used in a hire fleet or they are ex-competition skis and importantly are a tax deduction for the business. So the skis owes them nothing in a short time.

My businesses are far more competitive than selling paddling gear and I would welcome the opportunity of having a potential customer walk thru the door, knowing that the sale may not be for a new ski immediately but may generate a new sale later on.

And don't forget, once you buy a ski, the chances are you will buy other gear from them and eventually even a new ski increases.

Ask a manufacturer sometime what he would prefer. No loan or loaning a ski (even knowing that he may not get the sale).

Amen !

Hi pj-

I used to have a Spirit racing ski and from memory I could get the rudder swapped over, but in the end I decided not to bother and just get an ocean ski. I'm glad I did, the Spirit was too heavy for someone my size to ever get onto waves.

Time for boat #2 mate?? ;-)

What Rookie said . . . it's downright rude to take advantage of the generosity of the local dealers to 'borrow' boats and then when you decide what you like, buy it 2nd hand. These people are trying to run a business.

Now, if you're NOT doing that, I agree again with Rookie (geez this will be going to his head) that Robyn Khorshid's site is excellent. Rapid Ascent (the guys who run Anaconda etc) also have a for sale section on their site.

For those like newbie who are heading to the surf for the first time this summer here are a few tips to stay straight!

#Once you've caught the wave and been shot to the bottom of the face put some hard strokes in so the breaking wave can have a chance to settle before it grabs your tail and takes control.

#If your ski is nose diving, lean back as far as you can using your paddle for a little stability on the surface.

#Some times you can quickly 'pump' your peddals in small amounts to stay in control. It keeps the water flow over the rudder changing and not getting a grip either way.

#If you must use a trailing rudder stay infront of the wave. As well as not flicking out of the water a underslung rudder gives around 20% more steerage.

#If you find a nice long wave and it starts to die on you or is a little too small, lean forward! (Moves your weight forward and thus down the wave!)

Hi newbie, No problems at all! I wish this website had been around when I started paddling... and sorry, I'm a kayak only type of girl (as is my fiancée, who rounds the number of boats in my carport up from 7 to 10 or 11 depending on what we're doing). I have paddled the PRS once (briefly) and really liked it - if I was going to paddle a ski again (which I'm not!) I would get either a Finn Molokai or a Spirit PRS. Anyway, good luck with the boat trials - keep us all up to date!

ps I have to admit I think Robyn's website is fantastic for buying / selling / finding boat stuff.

Hey newbie I watch these websites for gear:

Robyn's website, good for everything paddling, see "classifieds" under the picture here

Geartrade sometimes works, but I had more luck with Oceanskis on this one. Also watch that many of the ads on this one are from the east coast.
Geartrade

Anyone know of other sites?

Hope it helps ... hope you are not using the local dealers to try before buying second hand ... not good paddle karma ... but I'm sure plenty of others do it.

Thanks Princess (you should have a capital P for offering such good advice)and Linc for your ideas.

My best option is to hang it out of view of the non-converted, so I'll opt for the wall bracket option. (Marvellous how helpful this forum has been).

Have booked the Spirit racing ski for the weekend ! Yipee ! But they said only on the Swan ! Groan ! What is the crowd of expectant onlookers at Sorrento going to do for a laugh this weekend?

Hey Princess! Once I make my choice of ski, wanna sell me a one ? With your crowded carport you're sure to have the one I want. Cheap of course? It could be the one you bang your head on next!

Where do ex-Avon Descent skis get advertised ? Or any skis for that matter?

That's the best (and least biased) comparison I have read yet.

I have stayed out of the debate since I thought the Finn MKI was more comfortable and faster than the MKII, which is against almost everyone elses experience. I still bought a PRS though.

Hi SG! Can't wait for the summer series season to start up again!...
"You have to be going faster than the waves "

Thought so.. i was hoping there was an easier way, like using the paddle to casually steer. The whole paddling like crazy was very obvious to me on my first race i did (paddle classic 2009) which was real dishwasher. It makes sense the need to go faster for the water to act on the rudder. Can the my Spirit racing ski get the interchangable rudder thing? I have the port hole for the under rudder on my boat.

Bring on the Mandurah Classic... I'm not coming last this time!!!

I have been holding off my comments on the PRS/Molokai debate until after the Avon this year. I have one of each, a PRS and Molokai MKII (both with the dual rudders) and do not favour one company over the other, as I have had great service from both.

Paddled the 2009 Avon in a PRS, no venturi (installed a bilge pump to get rid of the water). Foot pumps are useless. Sold it straight after the Avon with a few scratches and it is still going strong after this years Avon. Upgraded to PRS with the dual rudder system and venturi hoping to get one boat that does it all (surf and flat water).

Did the majority of the ocean races over the summer and found it a great boat to learn downwind paddling as it is stable for an ocean beginner. I give it top marks for a beginner wanting to do ANY paddling, ocean or otherwise. A one stop boat for the beginner. Go straight to one of these if it is your first ski.

Had tried the Molokai MK I last year and took it straight back as it was awful, tippy and twitchy. Decided to give it another go in March this year. Finn lent me a new Molokai MKII and I couldn't believe the difference. Much improved stability and very comfortable. 14 hours in this year's Avon with no leg/bum problems is testament to that.

There is no doubt in my mind, that the Molokai is faster. I have proven that in training many times, as well as in the Marathon series this year. I paddled the PRS in this series last year, and have improved my times substantially this year in the Molokai. The reason I paddle a Molokai is that they are fastest plastic ski. If the PRS was faster, I would paddle it - end of story.

I believe the reason the PRS does well in some races is the calibre of the guys paddling them.

PRS - Positives
- Great finish on the whole boat
- More stable that the Molokai
- Surfs better
- Smaller foot well - less water comes in
- Multiple Avons in the same boat
- Stonger rear rudder system - stainless steel

PRS - Negatives
- Slower than Molokai
- Sitting in water all the time
- Venturi still not ideal
- Awkward to carry on your own
- Don't see the need for dual cables for the dual rudder system.
- Awkward to change pedal length for another paddler

Molokai - Positives
- Faster, at least half a km/hr with my ability as a paddler
- Venturi works (when not broken - this years Avon)
- Comfortable sitting position, no dead legs/butt
- Seems better balanced to carry than PRS

Molokai - Negatives
- Poor finish
- Pedals are too far apart, I adjusted mine to get my feet closer together.
- Pedals are 'flimsy'
- The foot well is too big - you carry a lot of extra water when swamped (in surf or rapids)
- Assembly of trailing rudder is weak
- Will need another one for next year's Avon as this year's one will not hold up to another year.

Newbie - I have the same problem having to store all my boats outside on a verandah. Best solution I have come up with is a bolted on stainless steel (hard to hacksaw!) shackle and ring.
The fitting is a stainless steel plate with four bolts thru it to attach to the boat. A u-shaped ring protrudes from the plate with another welded stainless steel ring attached (this enables a bit more flexibility with threading chain or cable thru it). Wire cable, chain or a bike lock can be threaded thru and then attached to something fixed like a verandah post. I also like to use it to lock my boat to the car if I have to leave it somewhere.
Be careful where you put this fitting as it can be painful hitting into it when doing re-entries onto your ski. I have mine behind the seat and close to the water line. You can get them at marine shops or Canoeing Down Under.

I don't have a lock-up garage (quite a problem with 7-10 boats residing at my house) but I do have a carport (don't know if you do?). I tie numerous boats to the roof beams with cargo straps and live with the fact that I can't go in my carport with anything on the roof (or walk out the door without smacking my head). I don't know if you can attach things to your brick walls (or if you have a single wall long enough) but you can buy wall mounted storage systems from most of the kayak shops.

Thanks Ski Girl. Lots of good advice in your reply. I'll try to remember all next weekend as I'm careening down a 'massive' wave at Sorrento.

PRS V's Molokai V's whatever - I don't know a lot about it but, if it feels right, it must be right. And as for rudders, well what the heck ! I just wanna have fun for now and stay afloat as long as possible! I'll get to rudders in time.

And as for one correspondent saying 'roll on summer'! I'm only a light weight but the water last weekend was great. And I should know - I spent a bit of the time under it !

Any other tips for the 'Newbie'? Make them simple as I am a simple bloke.

Oh Yeh ! Storage ! I don't have a lock up garage so need a way of securing a ski outside (out of the sun under the eaves), so it won't get knicked. And my spare room won't fit an Endorfinn and a PRS would be half way over the neighbours fence. Any ideas?

Hey Ski Girl, good to hear from you again.

I wont enter the PRS Molokai debate, it comes down to personal preference. Each one is a compromise, as are most craft. It think there are good places for both of them, the PRS suited my plastic boat style (fun all-rounder).

The reason for me saying the Finn Mol is faster was based on my work with long slender motor boats. By geometry the Finn would have a faster hull speed, longer, narrower on waterline, more so for light paddlers.

My own paddle tests at constant heart rate showed about 0.3 to 0.5kph difference, quite consistently. Tricky test, maybe not accurate, but I was confident in the results. However, if struggling for stability (conditions or paddler), the PRS may well be faster. Struggling wastes energy and efficiency, or take one fall and 0.5kph benefit is all gone!

In all but dead flat water, I was faster on my V10 than the Millennium, and the Millennium is a faster boat (hull speed) for sure.

It is often an easy decision between PRS and Finn Mol ... try them both and you will know what works for you.

Finn can come with dual rudders. Bin has a dual one and is bloody fast in it either way!

I miss downwind too, but in the mean time, swell and light offshore wind is fine with me.

Well said Rookie.

My two cents: Not sure there's any definitive evidence as to relative speed of PRS vs Finn Molokai. The PRS beat the Finn in the solo long plastic category of the Avon this year and last - but then the guys in these boats could probably paddle a dunny door to victory. The Molokai is being made lighter, by putting less plastic in it (as I understand it anyway!) which is all well and good until you hit some rocks.

I don't think that the Finn comes with the interchangeable rudder system that the PRS does but someone should correct me if I'm wrong on that!!

And the trailing rudder in the surf is an issue because the back of the boat is out of the water on waves quite a bit, in which case you can't steer at all. The newer model ocean skis have the rudder moved forward - compare a Mako 6 to a Fenn Elite, or the older V10 to the newer one and it's quite obvious.

OHHHH I miss summer and downwind paddling!!

I have built up from a CTR (STABLE) => Spirit Racing Ski (Mid stability) => PRS (mid stability), and have had a Fenn Millennium (TIPPY but fast) and currently V10 (tippy if coming from PRS, sweet after the Millennium!).

CTR to Sprit Racing Ski was quite a big step for me up as a beginner. My mate's Endorfinn was more stable and more forgiving in surf, similar speed. However, I think the Spirit Racing Ski was the right move for me as less stability taught me well for the Millennium ... yikes!

I think the PRS is slightly more stable than the Spirit Racing Ski, not much in it. Bummer, they should have made the PRS skinnier! I find it very comfortable, my seat is raised about 10mm and feels good for a shortie like me to be up off the water! I love it as an all-rounder and training boat.

If going from CTR again as a beginner ... I'd go the PRS straight up. More comfortable, faster, and with underslung rudder, good playing in the surf.

It will probably take 8 weeks of regular paddling, 3 months at twice a week, or 6 months once a week to feel comfortable in chop, but it will teach you well.

If you can handle tippy stuff, consider the Finn Molokai, it is a faster boat than the PRS. Tippy was OK, but not the right plastic for me.

Dual rudder absolutely! Plastic boats are made to trash, dual rudders means you can smash it up at sea, on the reef, on the shore or on the river. They all take a beating well, my old Spirit Racing Ski is proof, thumped, bumped, scratched as, but going strong.

Note: PRS Underslung rudder shaft is quite soft. Bent easily, but did not damage rest of boat, probably good compromise. Bent back in vice, all good :-) If going shallow or unsure use trailing to be safe. If catching bigger ones (or downwind), go underslung, it makes a big difference.

Most importantly, try and keep trying, before you buy. Try them more than once in different conditions too. Don't try lots of shop ones out and then buy your mate's second hand ... bad karma!

If Juffy, buy any ski and just burn it! The skirt wearers of the world will love you for it.

Edit: Re trailing rudder in surf ... yes it tips up, but even when tied down, it is less responsive maybe as the whitewater catches it faster (further back), maybe because the underslung is deeper (cleaner water, less air bubbles etc) Keen to hear more from any clubbies out there.

Hi PJ!! If I knew how to not get turned sideways I'd sell the secret . . . but I fight like anything to avoid it if I start to feel I'm broaching (and you're right, that kick up rudder won't help). You have to be going faster than the waves to have a chance to straighten up which is all about being aggressive again . . . .

However if I'm coming in to the beach now and get turned sideways I bail out on the ocean side and let my beloved ski carry on her merry way. She is less likely to injure someone else without an extra 60kg on top, and less likely to get damaged as well. Last season using this trick I only managed to break a rudder, whereas the previous season I broke two skis and gave myself a concussion.

Again, I'm still learning - I'm from the desert and I'm much better at rattlesnake and cactus ID than reading the ocean. . . . .

My limited understanding (as a river centric kayak paddler) is that a trailing rudder (such as that used for river paddling) tends to be lifted out of the water when you catch a wave (when the back of the boat comes up), thus meaning you lose the ability to keep the boat straight. The back will tend to slip sideways down the wave. The under slung surf rudder (being under the boat and further forward) will stay in the water (more like a skeg or centreboard) keeping the boat straighter and giving you some steering (although this never really helped me, I still went sideways eventually and fell out). There is a physics explanation... I can look it up if you want!

My limited understanding (as a river centric kayak paddler) is that a trailing rudder (such as that used for river paddling) tends to be lifted out of the water when you catch a wave (when the back of the boat comes up), thus meaning you lose the ability to keep the boat straight. The back will tend to slip sideways down the wave. The under slung surf rudder (being under the boat and further forward) will stay in the water (more like a skeg or centreboard) keeping the boat straighter and giving you some steering (although this never really helped me, I still went sideways eventually and fell out). There is a physics explanation... I can look it up if you want!

Spirit makes the PRS with an interchangeable rudder system - the surf rudder typical of the ocean skis which gives you much more control in the surf, and the river kick-up rudder that your ski probably has. That way, one boat can serve two purposes by simply changing the rudder. They're smart, those guys at Spirit . . . :-)

"a PRS with two rudders" huh? please explain?

Whoops! I tried City Beach on a very rough late arvo on my first try, lucky I was on my CTR though (very stable) :)
I haven't yet tried the ocean/beach on my Spirit Racing Ski (it has a dirty great big heavy trailing metal rudder)... So, how does one exactly NOT end up sideways? Does a trailing rudder make paddling useless in ocean waves?

Hi Newbie-

I'm still learning how to survive the surf zone myself, but this article on surfski.info is very helpful:
http://www.surfski.info/getting-started/tips-other/item/1058-getting-out...

Basically on the way out you don't want a wave to break on top of you, so it's about timing - typically you want to be aggressive and really charge out thru waves BUT if as you're charging you can see that one will break on you, stop and wait for it to become a 'foamy'.

Coming back in is about NOT being on a wave (until you're very good!) - as soon as a wave passes under you, go hard and follow it in before the next one catches you. Stay away from areas with lots of people at first!!

Don't get turned sideways, nothing good can come of that - and if you are going to fall off, fall off on the ocean side of your boat, not the beach side, you don't want to be between the ski and where it's going to end up (on the beach) because that will be painful.

Sorrento is a fairly mild place to practice, stay away from Trigg, Scarborough and City Beach ('the graveyard of skis').

Enjoy!

-Ski Girl

Well everyone, I thought I'd bring you up to date on how the "newbie" went yesterday. As previously mentioned I trialed both the Affinity and the Endorfinn over the weekend.

Went down to Sorrento with the Endorfinn and although I looked the part, I was soon obvious to those on the beach, that I was "The Newbie". Only a small wave about but took a while to get in and get out to calmer waters. The Endorfinn was a little shaky (not me, of course) but paddled around a bit and stability got better. Came in to adjust a few things and caught my first wave! It was a monster 2 footer which promptly took me sideways and tipped me out. (More laughter from the assembled crowd).

Sorted myself out and tried to go back out and was promptly dumped by another 2 footer. But I don't give up easily, so tried again and Yeh I was off. It was so nice out there and I have aching thighs today to prove it wasn't just drifting around. Came back in on a screamer of a wave and felt very superior as I coasted into the beach in style.

So Endorfinn needs some taming in the surf but liked it a lot.

Have been reading comments about PRS etc but I think I'll try the Spirit racing ski next weekend. I think their CTR would be similar to the Affinity which was slow.

So thanks again for your comments. Any contribution to getting me on a ski and out beyond the "breakers" is appreciated.

Hi Juffy, I wasn't having a go at you, but was just curious, because no one I've spoken to before has classed the PRS with the Molokai, more with the Endorphin, in terms of stability. Guess I need to try for myself, and I will.

Thanks a lot guys , it's great to get advice from paddlers, and not someone trying to sell me something.
I might demo a PRS, because I"ve discovered that my definition of stable is not the same as everyone elses, hence the name. I had no trouble with the endorphin, so I'll give the PRS a go. I like trouble!
Thanks

Fallout - I was talking specifically to newbie. I have nothing against the PRS, just clarifying which Spirit boat I meant. I don't think the PRS/Molokai are the right boats for someone just starting out, with no moving-water skills.

FOB-

The PRS and the Finn Molokai are both quite new and are designed to be faster than the Spirit racing ski and Finn Endorfinn. The Spirit CTR and Finn Affinity are slow but very hard to fall out of, so they're good beginner boats if you don't think you'll ever want to get some speed up.

As for stability, it's hard for anyone stable in 'advanced' boats (ocean racing skis) to say whether the PRS or Spirit racer is the more stable option, because they both feel stable!! However I find the PRS very comfortable and predictable, whereas the Finn Molokai tends to hop from chine to chine and can feel untable - have a look at the hull and you'll see the chines, it's not a round hull.

I think a PRS with two rudders is a really good choice, they are definitely faster than the Spirit racing ski and the Endorfinn and good in the waves too.

Enjoy!

Why "not the PRS"? Is it not a good all water boat? I am being told it is more stable than the Racing Ski. How does it compare to the Endorphinn? I am doing some inland down river racing, but would also like something I can take down the coast and play on the waves with. I was considering a PRS with two rudders I could interchange to suit. Any advice is greatly appreciated. Thanks.

If you stick at it, stability will come. My suggestion includes choosing the slightly more unstable, as it will frustrate less, later, as you want to "go" more.

Went out on Affinity off Mosman Park earlier this morning but found it slow though stable. Went across to Pt Walter and had 1 foot waves but found the ski very stable, even on paddling 45 degrees to waves on the way back.

Had to go back to Finn on Canning Hwy to pick up something I'd left behind yesterday and Simon said I could swap Affinity for Endorfinn.

So back to Mosman with Endorfinn, and although less stable (but still didn't spend any time in water) it was much faster. Will take the Endorfinn down to Sorrento sometime this weekend and try a bit of surf.

Will not try Spirit CTR next weekend. From what you've said it will be much the same as the Affinity so I will try the Spirit Racing Ski.

So things are progressing guys. It may be that my days as a youth rowing on the Canning River, 32 years ago, have paid off. I'm a lot more stable than a lot of people would say I am. Thanks again.

Thanks for your comments guys. They are appreciated. I know it's a lot about personal preference but would still like to hear more views as it may also help a lots of others looking at getting into the sport. I just hope the waves won't be crowded with 'newbies' this summer.

I'm off to try out an Affinity on the Swan this morning. If you see a bloke flailing about with a paddle and getting nowhere, come over and give me few tips!

Cheers

If you like catching waves, don't bother with the affinity. It is absolutely terrible! Even the cheap sit ons at BCF etc. are better at wave catching than the Affinity.
It's slightly better than the CTR for distance paddling and for white water though, so is a better option for the Avon Descent.
An Endorfinn will ride even big waves OK and is much faster than either. You will learn to balance fairly quickly and would be terrific from North Beach to Trigg.
If you actually want to catch waves (including bottom turns etc at Trigg) then the CTR is for you. It's the only ski with any semblance of a planing hull, but make sure to get one with the optional nose cone if you're going to ride big waves

I went through the same thing a couple of years ago. Wanted to start paddling but didn't really know if I would take to it, so I tried an Affinity, a CTR and a Finn Kayak. My preference was an Affinty as I felt it tracked a little better than the CTR, buy really the difference was very small. I thought the CTR was finished a little better, but eventually decided on the Affinity. So my advice is to try both and pick the one that suits you best. Having said that however, I only paddled my Affinity for about 8 months before I got bored and wanted something else. If I had my time again I would have bought a second hand Endorfin. Although they are a little more unstable than an Affinity I think they are a much more versatile boat and even if you did eventually upgrade, you may well keep the Endorfin as a second boat. Unless you are completely miserable on an Endorfin, I would tend that way (or the Spirit Racing Ski which I haven't tried) and perservere with any initial stability issues. As long as you are reasonably stable you should be able to overcome the balance issue in a fairly short time. It is not unusual to come off a new ski that you aren't use to, just keep at it. If you really feel distressed in regard to stability then it may be better to stick with the more stable boat as you will lose interest quickly if you aren't enjoying yourself.

Firstly, kayak vs ski - traditionally kayaks are sit-in, with a spray deck covering the cockpit hole to keep the wet stuff out. Skis are sit-on - you have an open cockpit but the boat itself is sealed. Skis are sometimes called kayaks, but kayaks are almost never called skis. Most people doing ocean paddling/surfing drive skis, only a few die-hards and the playboaters use kayaks.

CTR/Affinity - either/or, really. I'd probably take a CTR for surfing, but neither of them for any real distance work. :)

It's worth trying out the Spirit racing ski (not the PRS) and Finn Endorfinn as well. They're both good all-water boats, and while they're far less stable than the CTR/Affinity they would keep you happy for longer if you start doing some real distance. There's always a tradeoff between speed and manoeuvrability, so it's important to work out what you want out of the boat.

I’m a newbie to this activity and want to buy a surf ski to get fit and enjoy the beaches and rivers around the south west and off Exmouth. I am a 57 male and live in North Beach and will most probably use the ski to run up and down from Sorrento to Trigg, but will also like to do some paddling on the Swan and some white water up in the hills. The main use will be on waves between Sorrento and Trigg, so wave surfing would be the priority.

So, having looked at a Spirit CTR and the Finn Affinity, I was wondering what other experienced paddlers would recommend. I will trial both and probably buy second-hand as I don’t want to buy something that in a years time I may wish to upgrade, if I want to go that bit faster and further.

And by the way, what's the difference between a kayak and a surf ski? They seem to be used interchangeably in 'paddling' websites and in 'for sale' ads.

Love to hear from you.

This is a topic that is debated fairly strenuously!

Here's my 2 cents worth (although it may not be worth that much).

I wasn't sure whether to paddle a ski or a kayak when contemplating the Avon descent the first time. I am a long time paddler of real boats (kayaks) but wasn't sure whether they were the best option for exactly the reasons given by you - skis are easier to get back in and there is less chance of pinning against a tree or rock. In order to give them a real go, I borrowed a ski and paddled it down a mild rapid section of the blackwood river here in Bridgetown.

It was a disaster! I fell in at every stretch of unstable water, including corners and mild wave trains. I was covered in bruises, cold and completely over paddling. I then took my playboat kayak down the same stretch the next day to see if it was the boat or me - and never even got the boat past horizontal. My theory is that I brace through my knee (as many kayakers do) which simply causes you to fall over on a ski. I also have trouble putting a brace stroke in on a ski. My thoughts on skis are that you fall in more for no good reason, and because you spend so much more time in the water there is a higher risk of injury (seriously, the only part of my body that wasn't bruised was the palms of my hands). Because you're so cold you then make more mistakes and fall in more. If you have reasonable kayaking skills, and you can brace or roll, there is no better place to be than a kayak. However, if you're going to fall over no matter what you paddle, at least with a ski you can get back in.

Hello out there.
At the risk of throwing a cat amongst the pigeons, I have a question.
I am currently training for a race in NSW called the Upper Murray Challenge. Its held in October in a fast flowing and powerful stretch of water, with no graded rapids as such, but pretty challenging for a novice paddler.I have done it twice in a sea kayak- stable but pretty slow.
In an effort to go faster, I have been training in a TK1, which I intended to race in. Reading this website, I am wondering if I would be better off in a plastic ski such as an Endorfinn or PRS? Reasoning being that if I come off I don't have a fiberglass kayak full of water to drag off the rocks and empty. Also, would the extra length of the plastic ski smooth out some of the turbulent swirls and eddies which can spin me around? How would speed and stability compare to a TK1?
The event has a website, but technology's not my thing.
Happy paddling.

What did you buy?
Second hand Knysna CX Maxi (WW version)

Why did you buy it?
Faster Avon Descent boat

Strengths?
Reasonably fast. Paddled to third place K1 in 2008 by Mario Vesely (ex-Slovakian sprint champ).
Good speed-stability trade-off.
Excellent steering (BIG rudder).

Weaknesses?
Cheap layup, open cockpit with no thigh braces, needs foot strap.

Would you buy it again?
Am buying a new one for this year's Avon in a better layup - double Kevlar hull and Carbon + Kevlar deck.

What did you buy? Finn Endorfinn

Why did you buy it? Was my first long plastic and I thrashed it to within an inch of its life. Managed over a dozen middle Murray trips including probably 20 drops over the Baden powell water spout in various water levels. Also did the lower Murray but did manage to snap it in half on that trip

Strengths? Great for beginners. This boat is quite stable, unbelievably comfortable with the optional thick seat base and backrest and this is a big bonus for event like the Avon Descent... no sore back, no sore legs etc which really makes the paddling unbelievably enjoyable.
Nose is really hard to dig in, even in big surf and took it out regularly whenever the swell was over 5 ft... What a hoot! Valley runs are always fun in this boat. Extremely forgiving for first timers.

Weaknesses? Plastic is very thin and if you leave it in the sun on top of the car after a morning paddle, it looks pretty sad drooping down at both ends. It always seemed to have at least a cup of water inside in even gentle swell. As mentioned earlier I did manage to snap it in half after the spine cracked, but having said that it was a quick and cheap fix. Gotta love plastic boats!
It always seemed to have a dent in the bottom from rocks or even the roof rack cradle.

Would you buy it again?
Hard to say... I currently don't own one, but have recommended them to a lot of people who have gone on to do lots of paddling. They really do put a smile on your face as they can be used just about anywhere! The flimsiness is the only thing that would stop me getting another (And the mango version is worse) as it's really only going to handle one season at best in my hands.

What did you buy? Spirit PRS (Currently have 6 boats in the shed)

Why did you buy it?
Wanted to upgrade my beaten to death Endorfinn. Took out the Canoeing Down Under Demo a few times before deciding on the features I wanted and then custom ordered.

Strengths?
Unbelievably stable! On top of my normal flat water and ocean paddling, I usually do half a dozen valley runs per year and well into the 20's for Blackwood trips each season and this boat cuts through the Grade 2/3 rapids so easily it isn't funny. It's pretty much only a wayward rock that gives me a swim. It's also incredibly tough and scratch resistance is excellent. Have had it caught broadside on a rock which would have easily bent my old Endorfinn and nothing happened.. Very, very strong mid section in particular

Weaknesses? Not good on big drops or catching big swell as that sharp nose digs in way too much, and as the rudder is 2 feet clear of the water, a swim is definitely on the cards.
The footwell holds a lot of water! The stock venturi is woeful and can't be used in white water anyway. I've seen foot pumps and electric pumps fitted. I went to a homemade venturi which slides back up the hole if it hits a rock and have never had any more issues. It also bails quicker than the stock one in the surf... bonus!

Would you buy it again?
Biggest problem Spirit will face with these is that customers will hang on to them. They are on a par with the CTR for toughness. I would definitely buy another, but this one is going to last awhile.

What did you buy?
Dagger Showdown 7.1
River runner/ Playboat
Weight 15.4kg
Length 2.16m
Width 0.6m
Recc paddler weight 41-68kg

Why did you buy it?
Wanted a river running boat suitable for west australia (technical rather than big volume style rivers), but also for some playing (surfing, spinning, etc). Boat has enough length to give momentum through features like stoppers, etc, but is still short enough to manoeuvre really quickly and gracefully.

Strengths?
Fits like a glove, and I can drive it, steer it, manoeuvre it easily. I have my own theory on this - I believe its to do with the paddler wt vs reccommended paddler weight (which is determined by a combination of boat volume, boat weight and boat size). At 5'3", 60kgs I am on the larger size of the reccommended paddler weight. I believe this gives me much more control over the boat without being too big for it. It sits nicely over the water line without being too low.
Boat is light (even with full kit for a big day trip) so I can chuck it on my shoulder and carry it easily including steep/ rocky paths, etc. Good for the not so strong paddler such as myself. Again boat weight a very important factor for me. Ergonomics, ergonmics.
Surfs good in the sea, but prefers going backwards (operator error?)

Weaknesses?
Not a large volume boat like a creeker, so paddling a tougher river like the Lower Murray above low levels (eg above 0.6m) will be pushing the bounds. However since we get along so well we may be inclined to try it one day.
Surf - hard to carve down waves but this might be the operator...

PS Can heartily reccommend the database on Playak for assisting in picking a suitable boat. Easy to search on personal specs and water types to come up with a bunch of boats that's right for you. then start searching the classifieds and shops for a match!! http://playak.com See Buyers Guide

What did you buy?
Mirage 530 - brand new 'cos I couldn't get a 2nd hander - kevlar

Why did you buy it?
Wanted a sea kayak - stepping away from down river racing as my 2nd kayak sport (why waste decent white water with racing on it when there's playboating and munchy descents to be done?). Wanted a boat to use out of ww season.
Tried loads of slimline-type sea kayaks out, but this one fit like a glove as soon as I got in it. Felt as though I could 'drive' it along compared to other boats where I just felt lke a slug (according to the oracle they were too long for me - too much drag to get anything back from the length). Needed a boat I could lift and handle by myself on/off car, etc as need to be independent to actually go out and paddle it without major drama - also bought a roller rack, for the back of the car to get it up, best thing I've done beside get the boat.

Strengths?
Versatile -
Good enough to be an amateur in multisport races (eg Anaconda)
But also good enough to be packed full of gear for overnighters
"Light" - 20kgs - about as much as I can handle on/off car by myself
Easy to roll
Looks cool ha ha

Weaknesses?
Fixed rudder means don't like to drag it down the beach (although others say its ok)
Not as fast as other boats but that probably has more to do with the operator than anything else!

... here
http://www.ratherbepaddling.com.au/node/350