The Great Boat Debate
Submitted by Winged Paddler on Fri, 09/09/2011 - 17:01
OK, there is a regular topic that comes up on RBP: What boat should I buy?
OK, so let's get a thread going on your boats. Copy & paste the following questions into your reply & then fill in the answers. Each and every opinion is going to help to build up a broad reference for new boat buyers. The more replies the better. If we get enough replies I'll make a link on the opening page to this topic.
Put in one reply for each boat you've paddled.
I'm also really interested in hearing from our overseas readers.
What did you buy?
Why did you buy it?
Strengths?
Weaknesses?
Would you buy it again?
Vajda Orca
Hi all
Has anyone here tried the Vajda Orca? I'm going to try one myself next week and I'm wondering if others have their opinion. I saw a couple at The Doctor the other day. I have a V10L and I'm interested in the stability difference v's speed of the two.
Cheers!
V10 copy
I have heard they are a V10 copy on other forums. I assume they mean the hull as the deck seems quite different. The thing that one reviewer said that got my attention was how comfortable the bucket was. Also keen to try one when the opportunity arises.
Go the Endorfinn
I remember starting off on the Affinity which is more stable than the Endorfinn but soon moved on to the Endorfinn. My recommendation is to go with the Endorfinn. You'll go for the odd swim here and there but that's part of paddling and the Endorfinn is dead simple to remount. If you change your mindset about swimming you'll be fine. I also recall dreading falling in but as I said, it's part of the fun and it's how you learn.
Cheers
Wags
The Great Boat Debate
First off I have had a few ocean racers that I have changed to over the last 5 years or so I will put them in order.
Ocean Racer No 1
What did you buy? - Carbon Fenn Millenium
Why did you buy it? - Because I didn't know any better
Strengths? - Fast, surfed well, Strong
Weaknesses? - Dual foot wells that after paddling a K1 for 30 years felt yuk, Non adjustable leg length and I didn’t have it quite right
Would you buy it again? – No
Ocean Racer No 2
What did you buy? – Epic V10 Ultra
Why did you buy it? – Loved the build quality, Sucked in by the hype
Strengths? – Single footwell, stable, reasonably fast
Weaknesses? – Slower than the Fenn Millenium, after sale service was not good, I was too small for this boat and felt I was paddling up hill the whole time.
Would you buy it again? – A big no
Ocean Racer No 3
What did you buy? – Epic V10L Elite
Why did you buy it? – Light, Great build quality, Made for lighter people, Seating position a bit forward
Strengths? – Comfortable, Great Steering,
Weaknesses? – Just didn’t love this boat … it still felt like I was paddling uphill, Because of the light weight (9kg) it was very jumpy in chop so you couldn’t really relax until going down wind, still slower than my Millenium.
Would you buy it again? - No
Ocean Racer No 4
What did you buy? – Think Uno (Kevlar)
Why did you buy it? – Loved the way it looked, paddled, build quality and the kayak feel about it.
Strengths? – Light, surfs great … hardly had to paddle to catch waves, best build quality of any ski I have seen
Weaknesses? – Seat has a ridge in it that stripped the skin off my butt and stopped me being able to really drive with my legs
Would you buy it again? – With a different seat I would love to have a carbon job Adam Fahey has one and I go green with envy every time I look at it.
Ocean Racer No 5
What did you buy? – A Carbon Brainwave Veyron
Why did you buy it? – It is fast, very fast. I gained 2 minutes on the cut run in this. Have just had some mods done to this boat which lowered the seat by 1.5cm, and reshaped the footwell to allow me better leg drive without squashing my calves
Strengths? - It is fast, very fast in big seas this boat feels built for The Cut Run.
Weaknesses? – Unstable however it feels great now that I have dropped the seat. Build quality is rough, Even though the boat is carbon it still feels heavy compared to the Think, not as fast as the Atom or the think in flatwater, would be better with a better balanced rudder.
Would you buy it again? - Yes
Ocean Racer No 6
What did you Try? – I got to use an Atom for 3-4 months before giving it back to Gary Butlion from carbonology who has now sold it to Rookie.
Why did you Try it? – I had a paddle of this and loved it and was given the opportunity to use it for a while
Strengths? – Light really fast in estuary or river conditions
Weaknesses? – A handful in big ocean conditions
Would you buy it? – Absolutely this is the best all round boat I have paddled but without more big ocean experience in it I am still faster in the Brainwave in a big ocean.
Summary
I have ended up with the boat I like in the ocean (Brainwave) and paddle my Nelo Vanquish in the flat water, after winter I was certainly twitchy in the ocean and thought I was going to swim for the first few ocean runs.
If I was going to get another boat tomorrow I think I would lean towards the Atom, however a different seat in the Think and a carbon uno would be right up there and I still love my Brainwave in the deep and HMMM I haven’t tried the Fenn Elite SL yet
EOS 665 (Zepplin) Demo
Let me start by giving a big thanks to Kevin and Mark for the demo of the new EOS 665. There are only a few dealers/shops who are confident enough in their products to let people have a real demo in real conditions.
I am 6'1" and 100kg so a lot of the really quick skis simply don't fit me. Either the seat is too narrow or they're not carrying enough volume to make life easy in the waves.
In a nutshell, the EOS 665 (aka Zepplin) is an awesome ski for the grown up size paddlers. It is full length at 6.6m yet has the seat width of a V10 Sport. It's about the same speed as a V10 sport but with even more stability (possibly even better than the much slower Fenn XT). An absolute beginner would feel confident in this boat!
Mark was happy to let me try the ski in the ocean, but as it was a howling easterly I headed for Melville waters instead to see how it would handle the confused chop. (The Ocean was dead flat)
The EOS665 will not keep up with the Elite skis downwind. But, and this is a huge but... into the chop and particularly across it, There are few skis that would match it, let alone beat it. It was awesome! I had an absolute ball, deliberately leaning over on the side chop... still no chance of a capsize! Let a wave catch you 3/4 on... no problem... no need to even do a brace stroke.
It probably won't suit the 70kg jockeys out there, but for the full size paddlers (and there are lots of us) it would have to be high on the list of boats to try. I have a V10 Ultra, but will be saving my pennies for a Zepplin as a second boat. I really enjoy going out in really crappy conditions and in the Zepplin you could paddle without ever thinking about stability.
Sea Kayak's
For an ocean boat I went with a LV plastic Sea Kayak (P&H Scorpio LV). As the rivers have dropped down this last week I have climbed out of the old Druid and back into the scorpio and I am re-discovering what a fun boat it is! I have even taken to using a wing paddle with it! (half my good sea kayak paddle is at a rapid called easy street I think).
I find that it sneeks along at a good clip and when you stuff up you just roll back up.
Atom trial ctd ... some waves
Well no downwind for the Atom, but I have been out chasing some small waves (2ft with odd 3ft face).
I love the maneuverability of the Atom on a wave. I'm not sure if it is the shorter length, or the snug fit, but it seems that I can throw it around on a wave better than the V10 (remember I am a little guy at 73kg ish). This seems good when I need to change direction to pick up another wave (assume same for chasing runners if I had the chance to go downwind).
I did struggle with stability a bit, particularly when the wind came in, and I was waiting for waves. I would get the wobbles when waiting for waves looking over my shoulder, so threw the legs over as 'trainer wheels'. Not a normal 'paddle condition' but it did remind me that I would have to learn to handle the stability a bit better before taking such a boat on choppy downwinders. Once on a wave it was stable and maneuverable.
I am getting better at remounts with more practice, and have the bruises to prove it. However, it can still take me two goes to get on if choppy. I think this just needs more practice. I can't manage a side saddle mount, the seat is very deep (good once you are in it!).
I like the way the bow drops as the stern picks up a wave. This seems to drop you onto the wave faster which is pretty cool. I also found the bow would submerge on steeper drops, but it kept speed when submerged. This was a little unnerving at first. Occasionally I'd get 10mm of water over the deck to my feet (deflector required). I don't know how far under it goes before the point of no return (or slowing you down a lot). However, other paddlers of low volume and skinny nose skis seem to think that is not a problem so long as the boat stays fast when under (something to get used to).
The low volume bow seems good for paddling through the wave in front of you. It does not seem to lose as much speed and sap as much energy as larger boats I have tried to paddle through waves.
So overall, I'm happy with this Atom trial. As an intermediate paddler, I think it would be a great flat water, mild water, mild downwind and marathon boat. My surfing today suggests it would also be a good downwinder, and I would not hesitate to take it out in say 15 knots. I'm sure it can handle much more, but my skills are not ready for that yet. My main reservation being re-entry in heavier chop.
I think it is a boat worth learning to handle, but in my case I would need a back up boat for the heavy weather while the skills improve.
Atom trial update, I bought it
I ended up buying an Ex-Demo Atom. I liked the feel and was looking for something to fill the void between my V10 and K1, which it does perfectly. In the long run, I hope it replaces the V10.
My Atom seems to be build #6 by the markings. The quality of the current builds has improved since my one, but you expect a few minor issues on early builds, and I knew what I was getting. It was demo-ed a lot, traveled a lot and it had a hard life, but it survived pretty well. I had a good local repairer do his magic, and it is better than original, and still very light.
I love the boat on the flat, really like it in small chop, and am still learning in the bigger stuff. I can't handle it comfortably in decent side chop yet but can keep it upright. I am probably still faster in my V10 in choppy side on stuff, as I waste energy on stabilization. However, that is just me lacking skill, I find the same when I paddle my K1 in choppy conditions where others are fine.
I am certainly starting to feel better in the Atom. I love the low volume in a side wind, it slices through chop very well. When I relax and get my balance right, I can take things side on well too, but do lose a bit of power while I learn to balance better.
The snug seat, and height between seat and feet is just what I wanted, it feels great. Kind of like a cross between my K1 and V10 (now that's a big contrast). Bigger paddlers may find it a tight fit, but I think it feels fantastic. I 'swim' in my V10, which is not really the right boat for small guys like me.
Downwind seems fine for a 73kg paddler. My stability can be a bit marginal with some side chop downwind, but no problem once up and running. The nose can go under on bigger drops, a film of water skims over the bow, but the speed stays up so ignore it and keep going! I need to learn to manage the nose a bit better, pulling up in the troughs, or changing direction before the trough, which is better technique regardless. I am starting to throw it around a bit, it seems to change direction quite well, the snug fit and shorter length seems to help me do this. I will probably make a deck wave deflector, or maybe foot guard to better split the water before filling the foot well.
My early Atom has a single bullet scupper. I think the newer ones have two. The single scupper works very well, and sucks well from about 7.5kph, I am impressed. I don't know if I would bother with a second bullet if I had the choice. I have padded out the spare room in front of the pedals with closed cell foam to reduce footwell volume, this seems to work too.
I'm not too sure about the stock rudder. I would like to try a deeper elliptical rudder like the V10 for bigger conditions, and a more swept rudder and skeg for weed. I think that will make quite a difference for me. I tried a few different rudders on my V10 and they made quite a difference. I also just like to play around with rudders (not always a good thing).
I have also practiced remounts quite a bit, and it does take time to master remounts on this one, but I am getting there. I haven't actually come off yet paddling, but have had a few impromptu braces. I like to know I can get on in choppy stuff if I need to. I still use a paddle strap (and leg leash) so that I don't have to worry about my paddle if I need to get back in. I get on a bit like a surf board, lying down straddled, before raising up to drop into the deep seat. Then once in, with legs over the side, I reel my paddle in on the leash, then once paddle in hand, bring the feet in and get going. That seems to work for me.
All in all I am very happy with the purchase, but keeping the V10 for a bit longer while I learn to handle it. My gut feeling is that I should not need a second ski within 6 months if I keep my training up ... but I also have a problem parting with my old boats (so my wife tells me!).
parting with old boats
Rookie, she should be grateful you have trouble parting with old boats as it may..indicate you also have trouble parting with old wives.
Fenn Mako 6
I am considering buying a second hand Fenn Mako 6 as a step up from my Finn Molakai. It is certainly fast and seems a bit more stable than the Finn in the small surf that I have paddled in. On flat water it is very smooth and fast.
I would appreciate anyone's views/experience on the Mako 6.
Mako love
Hi RA!!
I'm a big fan of the Mako 6. I used to own a fibreglass one, which I sold because (a) it was very heavy and (b) I had trouble getting back in it. I tended not to fall out because I fit IN it very well, but I didn't trust the ski in choppy conditions.
I recently bought a second hand carbon M6 which I only owned for a month before a minor surgical procedure that has me off the water for another six weeks (and two days) - but I really love this ski. It's super-light and fast and amazingly, easier to get back into than the glass M6. Maybe I've just improved.
I agree with Dicko that they can tend to broach, which is why Fenn made some changes to the M6 (rudder moved forward, for example) and renamed it the Elite. I think the Elite is more wobbly, I prefer the Mako.
If you're looking at a glass version, check the weight if you can - apparently some were coming in at 21kg!! Also try a few remounts and see how you go, this goes for any ski but if you don't have confidence in your ability to remount it in the ocean, you won't enjoy the ski because you'll be too tentative.
Hope to see you out there on our matching skis - in six weeks (and two days). :-)
SG
M6 advice
Thanks everyone for your advice, it's great to be able to draw upon other paddlers views/experiences. Ski Girl I look forward to seeing you on the water again with your Mako love and maybe mine? Salt on Sea?
rudder
Apparently an eliptical rudder on the mako 6 eliminates most of the broaching problems.
Spend $100 on a better rudder and you'll have a pretty good boat.
back in 5
good to see you back on board, SG
i will be back in a boat in five weeks after my much more wimpy surgery.
mako 6
These used to be the first weapon of choice, but in recent years have been surpassed by newer better performing models. Hence they are usually pretty cheap.
They are a good boat and 4 or so years ago you either owned a v10 or a mako 6 if you wanted to win races.
Fenn addressed some issues with the boat, mainly to do with broaching in bigger downwinds, and released the elite. A lot of midpackers still paddle them. It would be a good cheap boat to learn in if you feel you have the stability. They are still a fast boat, just not quite as fast as other boats on the market nowdays.
Check out Wesleys comparison chart. He's usually pretty close to the mark.
http://www.surfskiracing.com/
Atom demo Pt II
Thanks for the update! The Vault does the same thing with it's nose on bigger swell, at first unerving but as you say, doesn't effect speed due to lack of volume and actually teaches you to steer more. When catching waves off seashells I would lean back to stop the nose burying but then be caught by the breaking wave behind, so I tried just leaning forward and paddling with the nose buried and the ski maintained speed and handled fine, staying out in front of the wave. Would love to have the budget to have an Atom in the collection too!
EOS 665
Does anyone know if the EOS range of skis (from the Kayak Centre) is available in Perth.
I'd like to look at / demo an EOS 665. Apparently they are well suited to the heavier paddler and very stable without giving away too much in speed.
Cheers
Peter
I have a mate in Bunbury who
I have a mate in Bunbury who has one. Like most ski's on the market the maker has made some big claims regarding stability and speed. All I can say is that speed wise, the ski is less than impressive and is also a lot more unstable than a comparable red 7 pro. It turns on a dime but this is of little value when paddling in a straight line and I think contributes to the lack of speed. Buy a Think uno max, red 7 pro, Fenn elite if you want to go fast. These skis are all faster and more stable than the eos. If you want to try the eos I can arrange a paddle.(but I wouldn't bother)
eos 660
I stand corrected. The boat in Bunbury is an eos660 not the 665. The 665 sounds interesting, but so were the reviews for the 660. Interestingly he struggled for stability and speed in the 660 so did the sensible thing and bought a carbonology atom. Now he still struggles for stability but is fast.
I'm sitting at work, my next
I'm sitting at work, my next patient has failed to arrive and I'm going to fall asleep if I don't
use my brain soon...so here is my piece for the great boat debate. In chronological order.
Fat plastic, longer fat plastic, spirit cxt, cobra expedition (love this boat, still use it to go snorkelling up north and for the occasional marathon race), finn endorphin (wish I kept this),
Fenn xt, red7 surf70, red7 surf70 pro (great boat in the flat and downwind, too hard in small sidechop, yet really comfortable in big lumpy stuff) Think legend.
What did you buy? Think Legend in glass
Why did you buy it? Every damn race in the red 7 was in sideshore chop, which we never
have to contend with where I paddle. Too old to get anything too unstable.
Strengths? Finish, weight, great boat downwind, comfortable, relatively stable (would still call this boat unstable though), different rudders are easily available and changing rudders is like owning 2 boats.
The smaller rudder increases the speed in flat water and smaller seas to be more than comparable to the faster skis. The large surf rudder makes for a great downwind boat. Very under rated boat.
Weaknesses? Probably still a little less stable than I would like, but despite this I haven't come out in the last 12 months (though I have come bloody close dozens of times).
Would you buy it again? Would love the kevlar version. No I would love to keep this boat and have a uno max for when the water is warm and falling out is not so intimidating.
ONE POWERBALL!
"No I would love to keep this boat and have a uno max for when the water is warm and falling out is not so intimidating."
My sentiments exactly, love my Carbonology Vault which is probably in the same league as your Legend, and have an all out fast ski for days as you suggest!!! :) ONE POWERBALL :)
rudder
or get a small flat water rudder and gain an extra .3-4kmh.
Thanks for reminding me (river rudder)
I had been wanting to do this but didn't have the quids, have just sold some gear so will go ahead and order one.
let us know the speed difference.
Would be curious to know the difference in speed. I can comfortably manage small downwinds and bumps with a 5 inch rudder. The trick is to pick the days you use it. The other bonus is, how damn stable the boat feels when you swap to a bigger rudder.
Rudders and stability
I just put my surf (long elliptical) rudder back on my V10 after a winter of my custom 3" river rudder. Much more stable with the long rudder on it! Though I liked my short rudder for weed deflection (speed not so important), I wonder if I am actually faster with a longer rudder for stability.
An experienced paddler also suggested I try a longer rudder on my Viper K1 while learning balance. Think I might try that now after seeing the difference of the long rudder on my V10!
I'll be trying out a Carbonology Atom in the next few days. Sounds rather unstable after reading online. Perhaps like my old Millennium that I struggled with when starting out (now I wish I kept it). I am looking forward to trying the smaller Atom as I am 72 to 75kg and get blown around on the V10. ZThe Atom sounds awesome on the flat, but maybe not the boat for me for 20+ knts downwind. Tippy time here we come.
Atom
The atom is easily the fastest boat on the water. The stability shouldn't be an issue if you paddle a k1, BUT, make sure you practice remounting if you intend to paddle out to sea.
speed of Atom
I can verify that the Atom is indeed speedy, but the stability is shocking. I have 'paddled' one on two occasions on flat water and even though I couldn't put down a lot of power due to the instability, I was easily able to reach the cruising speed of my V10L.
It is a ridiculously unstable ski though and very hard to remount - I couldn't get back in on flat water.
Even pilbaralad's mate who paddles one exclusively and loves it struggles in messy conditions (KOTC, the Doctor last year). It IS fast, and it's beautiful, and suited well for smaller paddlers - but it's definitely at the advanced/elite level.
KOTC - Hard core
Yes, welcome back Di!!!
When I watched the guys heading off on the KOTC last year (I was down there to do the Anaconda Famil day) I was in awe of their guts, while the Doctor is at least downwind the KOTC has some seriously challenging cross swell/chop which would really sap the energy.
As you mentioned Martin came out in the Doctor losing a couple of minutes trying to get back in, what would be interesting is just how much time you would improve even taking into account coming out (assuming you can get back in).
Towards the end of the 18km Lancelin downwind early this year (which was not a pure downwind, more at a 45 degree angle) as I tired I came out and it took me a good 2 minutes to get back in as I kept going over the other side. The Vault too has a deep bucket and if I haven't fallen out for a while (which I haven't) it takes some remembering how to finesse your way back into a deep bucket, it's not like the V10 sport where I didn't have to think much about it :)
Having said that, I would love an Atom for river/estuary races and would hope that in time I could man up and take it out in the ocean ;)
She's back
Nice to hear from you again Ski girl. Paddling again soon?
seven weeks and three days
Hi Dicko - it's great to be back, and mostly, great to be out of hospital (oh- and alive)! I have to wait until 12 weeks post-op to paddle, which is 26th November. Not that I'm counting down . . .
Cheers Dicko
Thanks Dicko, looking forward to this. "Easily the fastest" should start some banter :-). Also only fast under control, the perpetual paddle challenge, speed Vs stability tailored to experience and conditions.
I ended up being faster on my V10 than Millennium in more than 10knts wind, and the Millennium was a faster boat. Would be interesting to try it again now with a little more experience. Millennium was not an ideal first ocean ski ;-).
My problem being I am still learning to paddle a tippy K1, but that is the challenge I like. Also easier to get back on a ski than a K1! I certainly got practice remounting my old Millennium, easier said than done in 20+ knots 5km offshore. Didn't have to use the flares, thankfully. Each ski is different so I will do remount practice near shore first :-)
Fun times ahead. I will report back my 'mid-pack paddler's thoughts on the Atom' within a week.
Atom = Fast
I demoed the Atom immediately after an hour in the Vault and it was so fast ( yes had the GPS on) it made me giggle like a kid. But yes it has that feeling that if you lapse in concentration it will send you swimming! It must be conquerable though, my Anaconda team mate from last year paddles it in all conditions (including the Doctor race) and prefers it to his carbon V10L.
getting back in
A mate has one and after a month of paddling in fairly benign conditions decided to do some remount practice and only then realised he couldn't get back in. Much pracice and many bruises later I think he has the technique to get back in. The difference in the speed of this boat over anything else on the market is quite significant....if you can stay in it.
Mounting an Atom?
Hey Dicko & Lad,
Did my first run on the Carbonology Atom trial boat today. Was more stable than I thought, more stable than I recall my Millennium to be. Similar stability to my V10 with 20mm seat padding and small rudder, but a very different boat.
Speed is definitely there. I tried some quick turns and side on chop, I was quite comfortable. Turns very well, feels nice and snug around my butt, hips and legs. Flare the knees a bit and you are locked in, pretty cool for a small paddler used to 'swimming' in bigger boats.
Looking over the bow, it feels like a long K1, nice narrow paddle entry too. I kept feeling twitchy thinking I was out in chop on my K1 and about to swim, but got over that quick. Low volume bow is awesome in a side wind for a light paddler. I get smashed by wind side on in the V10.
I have really short legs. The hump below my knees was a bit higher than I'd like for leg drive (not that mine is that good). However, others fit in very well. Shame the hump is not a little lower as it seems targeted to smaller paddlers. Ideally I'd pad the seat up and forward a little (ok on flat water, but risky for rough stuff). My overall position relative to the water was quite a bit lower than my V10 when stock and padded up. I had to shorten my paddle about 15-20mm.
Tried to dive the bow on some small runs. It doesn't have much volume up front and did show signs of going under a little. I am 75kg at the moment, usually a bit less. I don't think it will be a problem downwind, but certainly hope to find some runs soon to check. Others have reported concerns in this regard. Can't comment until I find heavier conditions.
Mounting was tricky. I practiced 10 or more mounts with and without paddle. I am used to a 'straddle mount' (throw leg over then drop in seat). That works if you drop straight into seat, but if you stay above seat to long you will swim. I have not practiced side mounts, but feel it is probably essential in rough weather on this boat. A few bruises from the mount practice, but important stuff. I will have to practice mounts in rougher weather too before a proper downwinder.
Overall, a very nice boat for small people like me. Perfect flat water / marathon Mol, and light chop Mol, even for those with limited stability like me. Probably good downwinder and choppy boat for light and experienced paddlers too (and those with skill to manage the bow on steep drops).
Sat is windy, not an ideal direction (offshore), but I'll find something. Tues-Wed may be the first day with reasonable downwind conditions ... will see if I can keep it until then.
my 2nd paddle of an Atom
Just happened to run into Rookie while out riding just before he hit the water (Had that look of excitement tinged with trepidation on his face). On the return leg of my ride I saw him about 500m off shore and cranking along at a good pace so figured he was comfortable in the ski. Once I got home (not far away from the beach) I decided to return to see what his opinions were and ended up taking the ski out myself for a quick spin.
I was actually pleasantly surprised at how civil it was, my first paddle in it was back in January , but I had just come off a large break from paddling and at the time thought it way outta my league. Last nights paddle had me thinking, hey!... this isn't outta my league now! I was able to paddle as hard as I wanted without feeling like I was going to swim, but like Rookie said, the test for whether it would be your all conditions ski is whether you can keep it under control out in the swell and chop.
Look forward to Part II of his review :)
Stability
Good summary. Isn't stability a relative beasty. I can still remenber the wobbles on my xt many years ago. The first race I ever entered was in my trusty cobra expedition
out and around the Busselton jetty. It was 12km of NE lump with some awesome downwind. I beat a mate in his millenium that day by 10 minutes. Nowdays he wouldn't even notice the lump in that boat and if we did the same paddle in the same boat he would cream me by 20 minutes. I suspect it's the same with Atom. Your skillset just improves with time.
I often think this when comparing boats on Wesleys comparison chart on surfskiracing.com. When you rate a stellar ses and an v10sport the same stability you just question how much he has improved in the last 5 years.
have you ever learnt music,
have you ever learnt music, its a wonderful experience.
music school perth
Wrong website eliciaperth
Not sure what's you're doing eliciaperth, but you're talking to the wrong crowd. Our music is the sweet gurgling of a flowing brook, the roar of the ocean or the gentle rhythm of a paddle through glassy water.
Enough of the distractions!
the RIGHT website
RATHERBEPADDLING dot com dot au received a mention in the CWA volunteer awards
http://www.wa.canoe.org.au/?Page=22453
It seemed that there was not a category for a nomination not specifically for an individual and RBP missed out on a volunteer certificate or a chance at the top award but there is recognition that RBP is a leading institution in WA paddling.
Konastorm and Vajda Orca
Hi all
I've been paddling for several years, mainly on the ocean in an XT, although i have a Prs i use up and down the river with a couple of paddling mates. Now i am taking the plunge to get something new and there seems to be a lot more choice out there. I've tried out a stellar and a couple of Epics. There are a couple of new ones i'm keen to try, the first is an Oceanbuilt Konastorm, i have a demo booked later in the week, i'm interested to find out if anyone else has tried this as it has not been mentioned before.The other is the Vajda Orca, i've only recently just read the review of this on SSinfo and it was a nice surprise to find this in perth when i went to book my demo for the konastorm. Anyone have thoughts on these or do i get to go first :)
konastorm
the oceanbuilt konastorm is the most stable elite ski ive paddled, very quick and turns like a spec ski.
the rocker is huge and the bow (reversed) and stern are super slim for trimming down runs and waves. get on the back of a boat on the river and it feels like your skurfing, you can turn it any direct because of the ultra fine bow. the seat is very comfortable and the paddle position is too. very fast on the flat as well.
the ski was designed (not copied) by a naval architect from perth that lives in the USA, he's made the hull design to telephonic blue (volvo racing yacht) and bmw oracle. shaun and brendan rice (ranked 8th in the world ocean racing) helped him with the brief when it was shaped on a CAD program.
the construction has been engineered by DIAB's consulting arm. the seam is super strong (saturn kevlar) and the deck is carbon reinforced. the resin is a high grade vinyl-ester (8-10% memory before failure, polyester (4% memory before failure) is what most cheap skis are made from. epoxy has more the vinyl ester.
take the ski out in the ocean for a good down wind, the design gives it an advantage into the wind and side on to the wind. then take the ski to the river and hunt down a few ferries or big boats between point walter and bicton.
enjoy
test paddle
Didn't even know these were available in Perth. Can I ask who has them?
in2kayaks
in Clarkson has both. Ty Stedman at Precision Paddling also is the rep for Vajda.
vajda
Cole, I tried out the Orca late last year. It was the training version at about 16kg? The boat was beyond my capability and I found it a bit narrow for my wide arse. Having said that the boat handled beautifully on the flat and felt very quick. I do prefer the look of the racing version which is black and blue as opposed to the white and blue stripe but each to their own.
At the time I tested the Orca I saw on SSinfo that the oceanbuilt was being developed. I intend to take it for a spin this summer to see what it's like. I notice the bow isn't as raked back as it originally was.
Let us know what you think after your test as i'd be very interested.
BJ
Konastorm test paddle
Hi BJ
Have been and taken the Konstorm out for a test paddle. While i was there i checked out the Vajda ski and as you mentioned it is the Orca training ski up at in2kayaks. have not tried this one yet but had a good look at it up at the shop.
My demo of the KS went really well. I have to confess i was a little apprehensive before paddling this, it's new and the design is different but... long story short, my planned 30 minute paddle turned into a fun 2 hours. The first thing that surprised me was how stable i felt in it, fully prepared to take the plunge several times i didn't have any trouble. Started off in flat water, tooling about Mindarie marina where i could try a sprint or two. It is very responsive and felt pretty quick. I don't have a gps or anything but speed wise it feels quick, certainly more than the others i've tried, but then maybe that's because i did feel comfortable in it right away and could get into my stroke.
One thing i did find very good was the seat, 2 hours in a new ski was no problem. Out of the marina where it was not so flat the ease of turn and control really brought this home.
It's got a good finish and a nice rudder set-up. The only fault i found was with the footplate, there is a bit of movement in this but i was told that it's been sorted out already.
I'm only looking for an intermediate style of ski, i think this one is going to give me a step up . There are a few photos at the website of this on in2kayaks.com.au
anyway hope this helps
Cheers
Thanks Cole
It is definately on my list of boats to try when I upgrade this summer.
Cheers
BJ
my learning circle.
My learing cycle to get to the startline in 2012!
[IMG]http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc302/jamathi05/DSC_8410.jpg[/IMG]
Thanks to everybody for their
Thanks to everybody for their thoughts on what boat to buy, it is really appreciated.
Cheers
Timmo
Standard Multisport vs Light weight Multisport
A couple of years ago Finn offered a lightweight version of their Finn Multisport Kayak. Can anyone give me some feedback on the lightweight version vs the standard weight version (specifically):
- Was it noticeably lighter?
- Was it more prone to damage on the nose/hull?
- If you bought one, would you buy it again?
Thanks folks!
lightweight
Admin will